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AK 47 Underbarrels

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skero

Recruit
Hi, can someone explain to me benefit of Tactical Foregrip or why Ranger Foregrip should be better than Merc Foregrip? It doesn´t make sense based on these numbers.

AK.PNG
 


KeyboardDemon

PC Gamer: Nearly Dangerous
Believe me, I struggled for ages to get my head around this stuff, and still don't fully get it now, but the key things are looking at the chart above, if we take the operator forgrip this has the benefit of making it easier for you to control your vertical recoil but at a cost of slowing down your ADS speed by 29ms.

All of the attachments are designed to help you, but they all have side affects too, a skiiled player would have mastered the are of balancing the right attachments to match their style of play. If you tend to prefer hip-fire to using ADS when you play, a Merc foregrip might make more sense as it increases your vertical recoil control and improves the hip fire spread to help make your shots/bursts more accurate but that will mean that your movement speed will be reduced which might be an issue and your ADS times will take longer, but that might not be a problem if you tend to hip-fire only.

I still haven't mastered it all, but with the help of some of the experts on here, I am getting closer.

Where did you get that chart, I would find it helpful if you can share the source.
 

skero

Recruit
Hey, of course: https://truegamedata.com/?page=landing

And I know what these numbers are but just don´t get for example Tactical Foregrip as there are only cons.
Or why to pick up Operator Foregrip where ADS is the highest and -recoil is the same as for other underbarrels. That what I meant.
 

KeyboardDemon

PC Gamer: Nearly Dangerous
I wouldn't actually pick any of those for an AK-47, there is a barrel attachment that has an underbarrel grip included, I think it is the 23.0" Romanian barrel and this has an underbarrel grip that's included with it freeing up an attachment slot for other things.

I got my AK-47 to gold using that 23.0" Romanian barrel with a monolithic suppressor, VLK 3.0x Optic, 40 Round Mags and FMJ Perk, this was recommended to me by @CMCFLYYY and is a really easy setup for this gun, especially for being able to control it over long shots.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
Hi, can someone explain to me benefit of Tactical Foregrip or why Ranger Foregrip should be better than Merc Foregrip? It doesn´t make sense based on these numbers.

View attachment 1266

The Merc, Ranger, and Operator grip all reduce vertical recoil by 17%, as shown. The differences are the secondary benefit. The Merc gives a hipfire accuracy bonus (good for run N gun SMG classes), the ranger gives a Stability bonus (good for longer range A/R classes), while the Operator has no secondary bonus. However, the Operator does avoid the movement speed penalties the other grips give you, so if you feel you don't need the Ranger's stability bonus because you already have a stock or laser equipped, or if you feel you don't want the hipfire bonus from the Merc because you still ADS when you run N gun, the Operator would benefit you by not costing you speed. Depending on how you're planning to use the AK, you could go with any of those grips. I would run the Operator out of these 3, since I use my AK more at medium/longer ranges and would prefer the Stability bonus over hipfire.

The Tactical Grip only provides a Stability bonus, so this would only be useful for snipers essentially where you are needing to line up that headshot for a 1-hit-kill. It offers no recoil bonuses at all.

The Commando Grip is different from the first 3, in that it has little effect on vertical recoil but reduces hortizontal side-to-side bounce. The idea here is, vertical recoil is very predictable and easy to counter by simply pulling down. Side-to-side bounce is randomized, with your gun randomly bouncing back and forth with each shot fired. This is impossible to predict and therefore counter, so reducing this would make the gun easier to spray because you are reducing the random bounce.

Since recoil patterns are different between all the weapons, you'll want to see what they look like with a Ranger grip on it. If it is very jiggly with a lot of randomized bounce (ie not a clean line pattern), then you probably want to put a Commando on that one in order to more easily spray at medium/longer ranges. If the pattern with the Ranger looks more like a line with almost no side-to-side bounce, then just stay with the Ranger because you don't need the Commando to clean up any side-to-side bounce.

I run the Commando on almost all my A/R classes, because as I said it is quite easy to just pull down to counter vertical recoil. So I prefer to use the Commando and reduce the side-to-side bounce which makes the pattern more predictable with less randomized side-to-side bounce.

Now as Dizzy mentioned, for the AK specifically, the Romanian barrel includes an integrated Merc grip that TrueGameData doesn't seem to have figured out. So this allows you to use the 17% vertical reduction the Merc gives, without wasting the attachment slot. Feel free to use that on either a laser, stock, or optic depending on what game mode you're playing and what your playstyle is.

I wouldn't actually pick any of those for an AK-47, there is a barrel attachment that has an underbarrel grip included, I think it is the 23.0" Romanian barrel and this has an underbarrel grip that's included with it freeing up an attachment slot for other things.

I got my AK-47 to gold using that 23.0" Romanian barrel with a monolithic suppressor, VLK 3.0x Optic, 40 Round Mags and FMJ Perk, this was recommended to me by @CMCFLYYY and is a really easy setup for this gun, especially for being able to control it over long shots.

One note. FMJ doesn't actually add any damage to the weapon, even if the stat bar says it does. All it does is help with bullet penetration, meaning you deal closer to 100% damage through walls and whatnot. In Warzone I would keep that same loadout but swap FMJ for the Tac Laser, which gives a good reduction to ADS time and adds some Stability to your aiming on top of that.
 

KeyboardDemon

PC Gamer: Nearly Dangerous
One note. FMJ doesn't actually add any damage to the weapon, even if the stat bar says it does. All it does is help with bullet penetration, meaning you deal closer to 100% damage through walls and whatnot. In Warzone I would keep that same loadout but swap FMJ for the Tac Laser, which gives a good reduction to ADS time and adds some Stability to your aiming on top of that.
Thanks, I got most of my gold mastery on Shipment and Shoothouse, I thought that the AK-47 was a lot of fun on those maps, but taking it into bigger play areas, I found it to be less fun at first, it took a lot longer to get to grips with getting long shots with this than it did with my CR-56. As for the FMJ perk, I think I put that on to get a daily achievement and then didn't take it off again, but I don't like using lasers, I added a suppressor to keep my position concealed, a laser just seems to make it too obvious that I am ADS'ing or approaching.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
Thanks, I got most of my gold mastery on Shipment and Shoothouse, I thought that the AK-47 was a lot of fun on those maps, but taking it into bigger play areas, I found it to be less fun at first, it took a lot longer to get to grips with getting long shots with this than it did with my CR-56. As for the FMJ perk, I think I put that on to get a daily achievement and then didn't take it off again, but I don't like using lasers, I added a suppressor to keep my position concealed, a laser just seems to make it too obvious that I am ADS'ing or approaching.

Yea I don't use a Tac Laser in Multiplayer because I hard-scope angles more often in that. But in Warzone I don't and the ADS bonus is more useful.
 

skero

Recruit
The Merc, Ranger, and Operator grip all reduce vertical recoil by 17%, as shown. The differences are the secondary benefit. The Merc gives a hipfire accuracy bonus (good for run N gun SMG classes), the ranger gives a Stability bonus (good for longer range A/R classes), while the Operator has no secondary bonus. However, the Operator does avoid the movement speed penalties the other grips give you, so if you feel you don't need the Ranger's stability bonus because you already have a stock or laser equipped, or if you feel you don't want the hipfire bonus from the Merc because you still ADS when you run N gun, the Operator would benefit you by not costing you speed. Depending on how you're planning to use the AK, you could go with any of those grips. I would run the Operator out of these 3, since I use my AK more at medium/longer ranges and would prefer the Stability bonus over hipfire.

The Tactical Grip only provides a Stability bonus, so this would only be useful for snipers essentially where you are needing to line up that headshot for a 1-hit-kill. It offers no recoil bonuses at all.

The Commando Grip is different from the first 3, in that it has little effect on vertical recoil but reduces hortizontal side-to-side bounce. The idea here is, vertical recoil is very predictable and easy to counter by simply pulling down. Side-to-side bounce is randomized, with your gun randomly bouncing back and forth with each shot fired. This is impossible to predict and therefore counter, so reducing this would make the gun easier to spray because you are reducing the random bounce.

Since recoil patterns are different between all the weapons, you'll want to see what they look like with a Ranger grip on it. If it is very jiggly with a lot of randomized bounce (ie not a clean line pattern), then you probably want to put a Commando on that one in order to more easily spray at medium/longer ranges. If the pattern with the Ranger looks more like a line with almost no side-to-side bounce, then just stay with the Ranger because you don't need the Commando to clean up any side-to-side bounce.

I run the Commando on almost all my A/R classes, because as I said it is quite easy to just pull down to counter vertical recoil. So I prefer to use the Commando and reduce the side-to-side bounce which makes the pattern more predictable with less randomized side-to-side bounce.

Now as Dizzy mentioned, for the AK specifically, the Romanian barrel includes an integrated Merc grip that TrueGameData doesn't seem to have figured out. So this allows you to use the 17% vertical reduction the Merc gives, without wasting the attachment slot. Feel free to use that on either a laser, stock, or optic depending on what game mode you're playing and what your playstyle is.



One note. FMJ doesn't actually add any damage to the weapon, even if the stat bar says it does. All it does is help with bullet penetration, meaning you deal closer to 100% damage through walls and whatnot. In Warzone I would keep that same loadout but swap FMJ for the Tac Laser, which gives a good reduction to ADS time and adds some Stability to your aiming on top of that.

Hi, thanks for long explanation : ) I understand con/cons from the table but talking about Ranger/Tactical foregrip where is stability bonus you are talking about? Some hidden stat?

And regarding AK I´m bouncing between both long barrels just because the recoil stabilization which is the biggest pain for the gun.
With "worse" RPK you can add another -15% but at cost for bullet velocity and rng modifier.

Also giving up Monolithic Suppressor is just painful as you lose bullet velocity and rng modifier too. Not mentioning visibility on map.
Tough call : /
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
Hi, thanks for long explanation : ) I understand con/cons from the table but talking about Ranger/Tactical foregrip where is stability bonus you are talking about? Some hidden stat?

And regarding AK I´m bouncing between both long barrels just because the recoil stabilization which is the biggest pain for the gun.
With "worse" RPK you can add another -15% but at cost for bullet velocity and rng modifier.

Also giving up Monolithic Suppressor is just painful as you lose bullet velocity and rng modifier too. Not mentioning visibility on map.
Tough call : /

1. Aim Stability is the amount of sway your reticle has when aiming down site. Buffs to Aim Stability make your weapon have less sway, so it's easier to line up and hit your first shot. It also affects the recoil pattern, because the weapon is still swaying during the spray, so having multiple weapons that nerf Aim Stability will negatively harm the randomness of your recoil pattern.

So in this case, the Tactical only helps with Aim Stability and doesn't help with the any of the vertical/horizontal recoil at all. The Ranger helps with Stability and reducing vertical recoil, but it also hurts your ADS. The Tactical has no ADS penalty, so if you're building a sniper class it might be beneficial to throw on the Tactical grip for better Aim Stability without slowing down your ADS. But on A/R classes you are going to want the recoil reduction the Ranger brings as well. Alternatively, as I mentioned the Commando grip also helps with Aim Stability while reducing the random side-to-side bounce recoil, which is harder to control than the vertical recoil, and it doesn't have an ADS penalty either. This is why for most rifle classes I use the Commando.

2. With the AK you always want to use the Romanian barrel. The Romanian gives longer range (32% to 25%), bullet velocity (55% to 42%), and recoil reduction (33% to 9%), while only costing about 1 extra frame of ADS time. The increased recoil reduction is because of the integrated Merc grip - so by the time you add on a Merc grip to the RPK barrel to get similar recoil properties, you have wasted an extra attachment slot on a grip, plus you still have slower bullet velocity and shorter range.

For Warzone I would consider the Romanian Barrel, Mono Suppressor, and 40-Round mag as essentials. You have a little personal choice with the other 2. I prefer to run a Tac Laser for the ADS and Aim Stability bonuses, and then a VLK 3.0x as well for mid-range precision and the additional hidden 10% recoil reduction. But if you don't like been seen while hard-scoping with the Tac Laser, use the LMG Stock instead for the same Aim Stability bonus, you just won't get the ADS bonus the Tac Laser offers as well. Or if you feel comfortable with the iron sites (meh) you can run both a Tac Laser and the FSS CQC stock - since you already have Aim Stability from the Tac Laser you can run a stock that gives you an ADS bonus instead.

Stay away from the rear grip attachments - they are the most worthless in terms of bonuses. I also am not a fan of any of the Perks, other than Sleight of Hand but the AK has one of the quickest reloads in the game so that's fairly unnecessary as well.
 

skero

Recruit
1. Aim Stability is the amount of sway your reticle has when aiming down site. Buffs to Aim Stability make your weapon have less sway, so it's easier to line up and hit your first shot. It also affects the recoil pattern, because the weapon is still swaying during the spray, so having multiple weapons that nerf Aim Stability will negatively harm the randomness of your recoil pattern.

So in this case, the Tactical only helps with Aim Stability and doesn't help with the any of the vertical/horizontal recoil at all. The Ranger helps with Stability and reducing vertical recoil, but it also hurts your ADS. The Tactical has no ADS penalty, so if you're building a sniper class it might be beneficial to throw on the Tactical grip for better Aim Stability without slowing down your ADS. But on A/R classes you are going to want the recoil reduction the Ranger brings as well. Alternatively, as I mentioned the Commando grip also helps with Aim Stability while reducing the random side-to-side bounce recoil, which is harder to control than the vertical recoil, and it doesn't have an ADS penalty either. This is why for most rifle classes I use the Commando.

2. With the AK you always want to use the Romanian barrel. The Romanian gives longer range (32% to 25%), bullet velocity (55% to 42%), and recoil reduction (33% to 9%), while only costing about 1 extra frame of ADS time. The increased recoil reduction is because of the integrated Merc grip - so by the time you add on a Merc grip to the RPK barrel to get similar recoil properties, you have wasted an extra attachment slot on a grip, plus you still have slower bullet velocity and shorter range.

For Warzone I would consider the Romanian Barrel, Mono Suppressor, and 40-Round mag as essentials. You have a little personal choice with the other 2. I prefer to run a Tac Laser for the ADS and Aim Stability bonuses, and then a VLK 3.0x as well for mid-range precision and the additional hidden 10% recoil reduction. But if you don't like been seen while hard-scoping with the Tac Laser, use the LMG Stock instead for the same Aim Stability bonus, you just won't get the ADS bonus the Tac Laser offers as well. Or if you feel comfortable with the iron sites (meh) you can run both a Tac Laser and the FSS CQC stock - since you already have Aim Stability from the Tac Laser you can run a stock that gives you an ADS bonus instead.

Stay away from the rear grip attachments - they are the most worthless in terms of bonuses. I also am not a fan of any of the Perks, other than Sleight of Hand but the AK has one of the quickest reloads in the game so that's fairly unnecessary as well.

Thanks again. But allow me to disagree about AK attachments.
I played with Romanian barrel a lot and recoil stabilization is bad here. For longer ranges it really bounces from side to side and you cannot do anything about it. You will miss a lot of shots unlike with some laser beam guns.

Mounting muzzle break and merc foregrip gives you -35% recoil stabilization which is great for mid and long distances. Vertical recoil is easy to manage.
I´m trying to go with RPK barrel +mono sup. + merc foregrip which has still better horizontal bounce than with Romanian barrel with mono sup.

And TTK loss is just minor:

AK2.PNG
 

skero

Recruit
Thanks again. But allow me to disagree about AK attachments.
I played with Romanian barrel a lot and recoil stabilization is bad here. For longer ranges it really bounces from side to side and you cannot do anything about it. You will miss a lot of shots unlike with some laser beam guns.

Mounting muzzle break and merc foregrip gives you -35% recoil stabilization which is great for mid and long distances. Vertical recoil is easy to manage.
I´m trying to go with RPK barrel +mono sup. + merc foregrip which has still better horizontal bounce than with Romanian barrel with mono sup.

And TTK loss is just minor:

View attachment 1279

Sorry, I meant Commando foregrip not Merc : )
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
Thanks again. But allow me to disagree about AK attachments.
I played with Romanian barrel a lot and recoil stabilization is bad here. For longer ranges it really bounces from side to side and you cannot do anything about it. You will miss a lot of shots unlike with some laser beam guns.

Duh? Nobody said the recoil is eliminated by using the Romanian barrel - obviously the 5.56 rifles all have less recoil and are easier to beam with at longer ranges. No one is disputing this - if you find the AK to have too much recoil with the Romanian barrel on, then you shouldn't be using the AK at all because that's as good as it's going to get. The Romanian does offer more recoil reduction than the RPK. To try and disagree with that is just ignoring facts.

RPK: Removes 9% vertical recoil
Romanian: Removes 33% vertical recoil, thanks to the integrated Merc grip

Neither gun adds or reduces anything to horizontal bounce or stabilization.

Mounting muzzle break and merc foregrip gives you -35% recoil stabilization which is great for mid and long distances. Vertical recoil is easy to manage.

Not sure where you pulled that 35% number. The Muzzle Break only reduces horizontal bounce by 20%, and the Merc Grip reduces vertical by 17%. You can't add those together. Plus you can't use a Muzzle Break in Warzone where you're needing a Mono Suppressor anyway.

I´m trying to go with RPK barrel +mono sup. + merc foregrip which has still better horizontal bounce than with Romanian barrel with mono sup.

This is false. RPK/Mono/Merc has -26% vertical recoil with zero effect to horizontal bounce. Swapping in the Romanian and removing the Merc Grip (because the Romanian has the integrated grip) changes that to -33% vertical recoil and still zero effect to hortizontal bounce. None of the attachments you listed have any effect on horizontal bounce. The Romanian is just better at reducing recoil than the RPK, while also offering longer ranges (32% to 25%) and higher bullet velocity (55% to 42%). It is simply a better barrel for all of those stats. The only downside is an additional 5ms of ADS time (since you have to add a Merc grip to the RPK that also adds 20ms ADS) which is negligible in the grand scheme of things and not a reason to skip the Romanian.

And TTK loss is just minor:

View attachment 1279

I'm not sure what you're comparing here. Is this just the RPK/Mono/Merc vs and the Romanian/Mono? The whole point of the Romanian and its integrated Merc Grip is that it lets you save an attachment to put on something to save ADS like the Tac Laser or Skeleton Stock. This is where the TTK difference is going to be generated.

You also have filtered 0% ADS time in that chart, which is why it's showing the two barrels as having identical TTKs, because it's ignoring the additional 5ms ADS the Romanian barrel adds.

Here's an accurate chart with full loadouts for both barrels:

Orange: Mono/Romanian/Tac Laser/VLK 3.0x/40-Round Mag
Pink: Mono/RPK/VLK 3.0x/Merc Grip/40-Round Mag

2020-09-20_11-17-51.png

The Romanian is 0.08s faster TTK across the board thanks to the Tac Laser, while also having 7% better recoil reduction, 7% longer range, and 13% faster bullet velocity.

The only reason not to use the Romanian is during regular multiplayer, where the extra range and velocity aren't as important and the 7% recoil bonus is not worth the ADS penalty. You can use the Skeleton Stock or even the 8.1 Compact barrel instead to save ADS and thus reduce the TTK even further, depending on personal playstyle.

Orange: Mono/Romanian/Tac Laser/VLK 3.0x/40-Round Mag
Pink: Mono/RPK/VLK 3.0x/Merc Grip/40-Round Mag
Blue: Mono/8.1 Compact/VLK 3.0x/Merc Grip/40-Round Mag
Green: Mono/VLK 3.0x/Skeleton Stock/Merc Grip/40-Round Mag

2020-09-20_11-31-03.png

Either way, the RPK is still the worst choice to make because it's both inferior to the Romanian while also being slower ADS than those other two setups. I really can't even make a case for when you should use the RPK barrel.

The Spetsnaz gives a similar range bonus with 1/3 the ADS penalty and no movement/hipfire penalties with the only negative being 9% more recoil and no real velocity buff. So this is good for short-to-midrange class setups where you want better mobility but also want that extra range and can deal with 9% extra recoil but aren't worried about bullet velocity because you are carrying a sniper for longer ranges anyway.

The 8.1 Compact would be good for a run-n-gun class as a secondary to either a sniper or another long-range AR. You can kit it out with No Stock and a Tac Laser to get maximum movement speed (+5.1%), strafe speed (+24%), and ADS speed (-133ms). Obviously the recoil and range/velocity will be worse, but if this is being used like an SMG that isn't as important because you aren't using it to beam at 75-100m anyway.

And the Romanian we've already covered. It offers better recoil, longer range, better velocity, and faster TTK (because you can equip a Tac Laser/Stock to save ADS since you don't need a grip) all for a negligible ADS penalty. It is simply the only barrel you should use for Warzone.
 
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