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Tactical Gaming

Why nerf everything except the snipers?

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Hughes121

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I noticed after this update that Activision gamers must primarily be snipers. They nerfed the grau (which is understandable). What I don’t understand is why nerf the MP5 and c4? You literally BUFFED the most powerful weapons in the game (sniper rifles) but nerf everything else?? This is BS. Everyone keeps saying, “ Why use the Kilo, MP5, or Grau? It takes no skill!” This is absurd! The ones using these guns are running around and playing like real gamers! The ones who are making these comments are the ones who hide in bushes or camp rooftops with sniper rifles! YOU have no skill, I sniped for a week and it became easy! You barely need skill to lead someone running with one shot, while head glitching knowing no one can hit you from 300 meters away. It’s bullshit. Grow a pair and stop being sackless snipers and crappy campers. Get out and play like a real gamer! Nerf the Fing sniper rifles Activision!
 

Tactical Gaming

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
It's true, they nerfed pretty much everything, except the Snipers. Here are the patch notes.
As they rightfully should have. A/Rs should not be able to outduel a sniper from long range by laser beaming with recoil-less full-auto fire. Sniping takes so much more skill than these recoil-less A/Rs and is way more satisfying to down someone.

WAHH WAHHHH I keep getting sniped from long range while trying to run-n-gun out in the open around Warzone - go play Multiplayer instead.
 

Carlos

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As they rightfully should have. A/Rs should not be able to outduel a sniper from long range by laser beaming with recoil-less full-auto fire. Sniping takes so much more skill than these recoil-less A/Rs and is way more satisfying to down someone.

WAHH WAHHHH I keep getting sniped from long range while trying to run-n-gun out in the open around Warzone - go play Multiplayer instead.
Should be equal. Not either or whatever.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
Should be equal. Not either or whatever.
Equal? Why should A/Rs be equal to snipers at long range? The point of a sniper rifle is to be a long-range only weapon - it should have an advantage. If you want to duel someone at long-range you better have a sniper, otherwise keep your head down. An A/R is supposed to be a mid-range weapon, but because Activision knows how many babies will complain if they nerf the recoil on A/Rs, what we get instead are laser-beam recoil-less A/Rs that make DMRs pointless.
 

Carlos

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Equal? Why should A/Rs be equal to snipers at long range? The point of a sniper rifle is to be a long-range only weapon - it should have an advantage. If you want to duel someone at long-range you better have a sniper, otherwise keep your head down. An A/R is supposed to be a mid-range weapon, but because Activision knows how many babies will complain if they nerf the recoil on A/Rs, what we get instead are laser-beam recoil-less A/Rs that make DMRs pointless.
AR's/SMG's/LMG's are supposed to be designed like snipers when it comes to long-range battles. The problem I have with them is let's say you're sitting at a cliff and you can shoot an AR/SMG/LMG from 100 meters without knowing where that character/player is... and kill them with an obscene sight. I see it all the time on "Top Call of Duty Plays" on YouTube. It's almost like the person is cheating. But when you walk around with an AR/SMG/LMG, you should be able to just as much pick off a sniper as much as they can pick you off.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
AR's/SMG's/LMG's are supposed to be designed like snipers when it comes to long-range battles. The problem I have with them is let's say you're sitting at a cliff and you can shoot an AR/SMG/LMG from 100 meters without knowing where that character/player is... and kill them with an obscene sight. I see it all the time on "Top Call of Duty Plays" on YouTube. It's almost like the person is cheating. But when you walk around with an AR/SMG/LMG, you should be able to just as much pick off a sniper as much as they can pick you off.
I literally could not disagree with this any harder.

Shotguns = CQC king, no effectiveness outside CQC (725 not withstanding)
SMGs = CQC & short-range. Will get outgunned by a shotgun in CQC, but still effective out to 30-50m (in-game).
A/Rs = short/mid-range. Will get outgunned by shotguns and SMGs in closer range but still effective out to 100m. Will get outgunned by DMRs and snipers at longer ranges.
DMRs = mid/long-range. Useless in shorter ranges but can be effective at mid-range while outgunning A/Rs at longer ranges. Will have trouble going head-to-head with a sniper at extreme range.
Sniper = long-range king. I wish they'd removed the stupid quick-scoping to limit CQC effectiveness of snipers, but either way Snipers are the king of long-range combat. If you don't have a sniper you shouldn't challenge one at extreme range, save for maybe a good DMR.

Making A/Rs "great at everything" is the reason why the Grau was so abused. Great CQC weapon with elite mid/long-range effectiveness that can go toe-to-toe with snipers. The question becomes, why even bother using a sniper if an A/R is just as effective long-range but also more effective at shorter ranges.

When you start asking yourself questions like that, you know things aren't balanced correctly.
 

Carlos

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I literally could not disagree with this any harder.

Shotguns = CQC king, no effectiveness outside CQC (725 not withstanding)
SMGs = CQC & short-range. Will get outgunned by a shotgun in CQC, but still effective out to 30-50m (in-game).
A/Rs = short/mid-range. Will get outgunned by shotguns and SMGs in closer range but still effective out to 100m. Will get outgunned by DMRs and snipers at longer ranges.
DMRs = mid/long-range. Useless in shorter ranges but can be effective at mid-range while outgunning A/Rs at longer ranges. Will have trouble going head-to-head with a sniper at extreme range.
Sniper = long-range king. I wish they'd removed the stupid quick-scoping to limit CQC effectiveness of snipers, but either way Snipers are the king of long-range combat. If you don't have a sniper you shouldn't challenge one at extreme range, save for maybe a good DMR.

Making A/Rs "great at everything" is the reason why the Grau was so abused. Great CQC weapon with elite mid/long-range effectiveness that can go toe-to-toe with snipers. The question becomes, why even bother using a sniper if an A/R is just as effective long-range but also more effective at shorter ranges.

When you start asking yourself questions like that, you know things aren't balanced correctly.
I'm just gonna agree to disagree. Nobody's gonna agree on this. Everyone's got their ideas.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
I'm just gonna agree to disagree. Nobody's gonna agree on this. Everyone's got their ideas.
Could you elaborate further on these two ideas:

"AR's/SMG's/LMG's are supposed to be designed like snipers when it comes to long-range battles." How is this good for weapon variety? Why should I use an LMG or SMG over an A/R when they're all designed to have the same effectiveness at long-range?

"with an AR/SMG/LMG, you should be able to just as much pick off a sniper as much as they can pick you off." If an A/R should be equal to a sniper at long-range, why should I ever use a sniper? A/Rs are obviously more effective in CQC and short-range, if they're also as good as a sniper long range why should I use a sniper? Why are snipers in the game?
 

Carlos

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Could you elaborate further on these two ideas:

"AR's/SMG's/LMG's are supposed to be designed like snipers when it comes to long-range battles." How is this good for weapon variety? Why should I use an LMG or SMG over an A/R when they're all designed to have the same effectiveness at long-range?

"with an AR/SMG/LMG, you should be able to just as much pick off a sniper as much as they can pick you off." If an A/R should be equal to a sniper at long-range, why should I ever use a sniper? A/Rs are obviously more effective in CQC and short-range, if they're also as good as a sniper long range why should I use a sniper? Why are snipers in the game?
You sound like someone who loves snipers. So, a guy with an MP5 is nimble to you. But back in Season 3, I was able to shoot players from across the map sometimes and go about my merry ways. AR/SMG/LMG are designed to be run n' gun weapons, with the ability to shoot from long distances. While Snipers are designed to shoot from LONG. LONG. distances. I mean miles away kind of long. You have a magnifying glass for a scope in your Snipers, bro. You can attach scopes to your AR/SMG/LMG, but you're not going to get the same range as the Sniper.

This is true for real life. Every weapon has what's called "bullet drop off." It's in MGSV: The Phantom Pain, too.

As a matter of fact, go binge watch Seal Team, S.W.A.T or Shooter (yes, it's a TV show).
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
You sound like someone who loves snipers. So, a guy with an MP5 is nimble to you. But back in Season 3, I was able to shoot players from across the map sometimes and go about my merry days. AR/SMG/LMG are designed to be run n' gun weapons, with the ability to shoot from long distances. While Snipers are designed to shoot from LONG. LONG. distances. I mean miles away kind of long. You have a magnifying glass for a scope in your Snipers, bro. You can attach scopes to your AR/SMG/LMG, but you're not going to get the same range as the Sniper.
LOL no that is absolutely not what ARs/SMGs are designed for. Yes normal snipers are supposed to be fired from "miles and miles" away. But this is a game, and there isn't miles and miles of terrain. They have to nerf the range of everything in order to have everyone in a small playable area or you could take naps and do your taxes between combat.

I seriously can't believe you're arguing SMGs and A/Rs should be as viable as snipers for long-range combat. Blows my mind.
 

Carlos

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See, this is why I said "I'll just agree to disagree." You're arguing semantics. Warzone is supposed to be designed as an open-world sandbox. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare was designed to accommodate Warzone.

Do you understand? Everything in Warzone is based off of Modern Warfare.

The fact that you can't understand that AR/SMG/LMG are supposed to be different weapon classes, with different, and distinct attributes. They are designed to shoot from a distance, and have bullet drops. That's why when you use MP5, your distance is cut in half. If you use AUG, your distance is a little longer, but your weapon has other attributes. This is where everyone gets weapons wrong. Everyone complains that the GRAU was deadly, but they're the same people who asked for weapons better than fucking MP5 or the M4...

Now, if you pit MP5 vs M4 back in Season 1. M4 wins from a long distance. MP5 is supreme CQC. LMG's are heavy duty weapons, which is why they are used less, than every other weapon, but they have a benefit. They are usually used as a LONG range rifle.

You can't use Shotguns from a long distance, but people use it as long range (no really, I saw someone stupid enough to use it as such. Killed anyway.)
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
The fact that you can't understand that AR/SMG/LMG are supposed to be different weapon classes, with different, and distinct attributes. They are designed to shoot from a distance, and have bullet drops. That's why when you use MP5, your distance is cut in half. If you use AUG, your distance is a little longer, but your weapon has other attributes. This is where everyone gets weapons wrong. Everyone complains that the GRAU was deadly, but they're the same people who asked for weapons better than fucking MP5 or the M4...
This is the main issue. The 5.56 A/Rs have NO bullet drop. No bullet drop and no recoil (former Grau) means you can just full-auto guys from long range and duel with snipers - this is NOT how an A/R is designed to be used.

5.56 rifles actually have faster bullet velocity than the snipers in this game.
 

Carlos

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This is the main issue. The 5.56 A/Rs have NO bullet drop. No bullet drop and no recoil (former Grau) means you can just full-auto guys from long range and duel with snipers - this is NOT how an A/R is designed to be used.

5.56 rifles actually have faster bullet velocity than the snipers in this game.
Okay, fine. GRAU is nerfed and should have been nerfed. But not by that much, though. If you want to sell a DLC, you need to give benefits to having to either: Progress further in Battle Pass (easy way), or buy the bundle (hard way).
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
Okay, fine. GRAU is nerfed and should have been nerfed. But not by that much, though. If you want to sell a DLC, you need to give benefits to having to either: Progress further in Battle Pass (easy way), or buy the bundle (hard way).
What does selling skins or other DLC have to do with balancing the weapons correctly? They can certainly do both.
 

Carlos

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What does selling skins or other DLC have to do with balancing the weapons correctly? They can certainly do both.
They can balance the weapon, but at what expense? Thing is, there are lot of people complaining that a lot of weapons are useless. The GRAU was put into the game IN RESPONSE TO THAT. To nerf it that heavy, makes it worthless. +Shrugs+

Imagine MP5 not being in Modern Warfare, and was held for DLC. Would you buy it if it was lesser than it is now? The current balance of MP5. The MP5 was a monster during Season One, and Season Two. I switched to 725 in Mid-Season Two because I wanted to get gold for the best guns in the game.
 
For one I'm not really sure why so many snipers complained about the grau.
As long as cover was being used the grau wasn't going to take on a reasonably skilled sniper.

But back to the op....
Did you say the C4 was nerfed? I wasnt aware of this? Please give info.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
They can balance the weapon, but at what expense? Thing is, there are lot of people complaining that a lot of weapons are useless. The GRAU was put into the game IN RESPONSE TO THAT. To nerf it that heavy, makes it worthless. +Shrugs+

Imagine MP5 not being in Modern Warfare, and was held for DLC. Would you buy it if it was lesser than it is now? The current balance of MP5. The MP5 was a monster during Season One, and Season Two. I switched to 725 in Mid-Season Two because I wanted to get gold for the best guns in the game.
Why is adding an overpowered weapon that everyone will use the answer to "people complaining weapons most weapons are useless". A lot of the weapons are seemingly useless, because they haven't balanced them correctly. The answer isn't to plop down an even more overpowered weapon that will make them even more useless than they already were, which is what they did with the Grau.

Every weapon in the game should have a niche where it's useful and effective, this is called balancing. If you have certain weapons that are good at too many niches they become overpowered, and if you have some weapons that don't have a useful niche at all they become useless. The issue with the Grau was it excelled in too many niches, and rendered what like 75% of the other weapons completely useless.
 

Carlos

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Why is adding an overpowered weapon that everyone will use the answer to "people complaining weapons most weapons are useless". A lot of the weapons are seemingly useless, because they haven't balanced them correctly. The answer isn't to plop down an even more overpowered weapon that will make them even more useless than they already were, which is what they did with the Grau.

Every weapon in the game should have a niche where it's useful and effective, this is called balancing. If you have certain weapons that are good at too many niches they become overpowered, and if you have some weapons that don't have a useful niche at all they become useless. The issue with the Grau was it excelled in too many niches, and rendered what like 75% of the other weapons completely useless.
What are you even arguing about? You don't realise that the SNIPERS in the game is more powerful than the fucking AR/SMG/LMG? You're on a hill where you want to die or something. I try to argue my points and you kept going in this mythtical fucking circle. Jesus christ.
 
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