Warzone Please make BR 'Classic' a permanent addition

[Secuter]

Hello everybody! First post on this sub.
I'm unsure if the developers / community managers follow the reddit page, so I'd rather post here.

I personally liked the BR classic way more than I enjoy the "normal" modes. Thing is I found the Classic version much less arcady. If you die, you die. No gulag, no team to buy you back to life or anything else. Especially that non-sense about getting back from the Gulag annoys me. Both being in the Gulag and the enemy coming back to reequip all his stuff / revenge kill you just irks me.

Another aspect I enjoyed is that everybody was "reduced" to the same level. No fancy weapon load out, perks, kill streaks or other such stuff - no, you get what you find. You only find trash equipment? Well, too bad, make do with it. I liked that feel a lot.
You never get that feel in the standard mode with UAV's, fancy-pantsy equipment and enemies coming back from the dead going all over the place.

The only thing I would've changed from BR Classic is the Heartbeat sensor. I don't think it should've been included because it can't in any way be countered without perks. The heart beat sensor belongs in the standard mode.


So, please make the BR 'classic' mode a permanent addition to the game. It was an awesome gamemode which catered to a segment of your players - well, at least it catered to me.

Best regards
Secuter

 

[ProjectMyhm4130]

I completely agree with you. As a long term pubg player the stripped down mode was an absolute blast.
But....

Another aspect I enjoyed is that everybody was "reduced" to the same level. No fancy weapon load out, perks, kill streaks or other such stuff - no, you get what you find.

...this is why I'm almost certain they won't make it a permanent feature. People wont buy the battle-pass or items from the store which they can't call in during the game ‍
So while I agree with everything you said, I think the best we can hope for is that they put it in a regular rotation that comes back semi-regularly.

 

[CMCFLYYY]

I completely agree with you. As a long term pubg player the stripped down mode was an absolute blast.
But....

...this is why I'm almost certain they won't make it a permanent feature. People wont buy the battle-pass or items from the store which they can't call in during the game ‍♂
So while I agree with everything you said, I think the best we can hope for is that they put it in a regular rotation that comes back semi-regularly.

Are you referring to gun skins and what not? Because those could still be made to appear on floot loot weapons.

Hello everybody! First post on this sub.
I'm unsure if the developers / community managers follow the reddit page, so I'd rather post here.

I personally liked the BR classic way more than I enjoy the "normal" modes. Thing is I found the Classic version much less arcady. If you die, you die. No gulag, no team to buy you back to life or anything else. Especially that non-sense about getting back from the Gulag annoys me. Both being in the Gulag and the enemy coming back to reequip all his stuff / revenge kill you just irks me.

Another aspect I enjoyed is that everybody was "reduced" to the same level. No fancy weapon load out, perks, kill streaks or other such stuff - no, you get what you find. You only find trash equipment? Well, too bad, make do with it. I liked that feel a lot.
You never get that feel in the standard mode with UAV's, fancy-pantsy equipment and enemies coming back from the dead going all over the place.

The only thing I would've changed from BR Classic is the Heartbeat sensor. I don't think it should've been included because it can't in any way be countered without perks. The heart beat sensor belongs in the standard mode.


So, please make the BR 'classic' mode a permanent addition to the game. It was an awesome gamemode which catered to a segment of your players - well, at least it catered to me.

Best regards
Secuter

Agree 100%. I never played the Classic mode because I knew I'd like it and I knew it wouldn't be permanent, so what's the use in playing and getting used to it if it's just going to get pulled out of rotation in a week. But as a former PUBG player as well, I would love for this to become a permanent addtition.

I was just talking with a buddy this morning...Loadouts are way too easy to get, and they give you the exact specific setup you want. In PUBG you might spend the entire round looting and never get the fully kitted weapons you want - your ideal setup if you will. You can go several matches without even seeing a suppressor. Sometimes you can't find good optics, or the right grip or mag somehow eludes you. But in Warzone, 95% of weapons being used after the first 5 minutes are suppressed. And all it takes is doing a single contract or spending 5 minutes opening regular boxes and boom you have enough cash to buy your ideal loadout with all the grips/mags/optics/suppressors you want.

So basically Warzone boils down to...150 players drop from the plane with a pistol and there's a quick 5 minute scrum that wipes out maybe a 3rd of the server. But by that point the remaining squads have all likely completed a contract or looted enough to afford a Loaout, or by that point the free Loadout drops. So the vast majority of teams surviving the first 5 minutes all have their ideal loadouts, and then it's just playing deathmatch from there. Sure you continue to "loot" but not for weapons, all you care about is finding more cash to buy UAVs. And deathmatch is the right word, with the Gulag and buybacks allowing for players to have 3-4 lives in a BR game.

PUBG offers a totally different feel, and I get that not all games need to be the same and PUBG is definitely more up my alley. But PUBG is definitely more focused on a good balance between looting and fighting - sometimes it takes you most of the match to finally get a good quality setup and then suddenly there's 15 people left. Whereas I can't even remember the last Warzone game I played where we surived the initial scrum that I didn't have my Loadout within 5 minutes.

But that whole time you spend moving and looting in PUBG is more tense because everyone only has 1 life to live so moving around to new areas to loot is much riskier than Warzone. In PUBG 1 lone guy could wipe half your team permanently from the game in a few seconds. Or if you're rotating to a new area and don't pay attention, 1 squad can wipe you before you even know where the shots came from, and your match is over. No Gulag, no buybacks. Over. But it's also necessary to keep looting because everyone needs to finish kitting out weapons and find ammo/armor/health. There's a lot more risk/reward elements in PUBG - in Warzone it's more user-friendly deathmatch oriented with less risk elements included.

And that's the bottom line. Warzone is easy to pick up and play for people new to the genre. Don't have to worry about attachments and kitting out weapons yourself, don't have to worry about picking up various tyes of ammo for different weapons. No armor to worry about picking up, just chest plates which somehow protect your head. Just run through buildings "listening" for the humming chests and find cash to buy everything you'll ever need.

Changes I would make instantly:

1. Get rid of the infinite parachute - one extra reserve chute is fine but being able to cut your chute to pistol someone in the sky about 4 times is just stupid.

2. Add damage for jumping out of moving vehicles - this should be self-explanatory.

3. Increase Loadout prices - I would suggest something like $30k. If you can get $10k as a squad for doing 1 contract, and contracts only take a few minutes, then doing 3 contracts over the course of 10-15 minutes should be appropriate to get your ideal Loadouts. This would mean far less squads wind up with Loadouts, and more players relying on floor loot weapons without perks. This would also mean less UAVs and HB Sensors in general, because for those who can't get to the $30k for a Loadout they'd have to find a HB Sensor in a box, and squads saving for $30k Loadouts aren't going to be wasting $12k on UAVs.

4. Remove the free Loadout drops - replace these with a couple legendary red crates tied together. The free random drops should be no different than what you find in the bunkers - elite floor loot and lots of cash. But they are visible to everyone just like all the other loot on the map, so heading to loot them is a large risk/reward.

 

[Secuter]

@CMCFLYYY

You raise some very valid points. I also think there's way too many weapons with silencers. To be fair, I think silencers should be very rare. But that raise another problem that everybody will know exactly where you are. That is both not very realistic and it also means that you want to stay away from combat until you have silenced weapons (granted, they are easy to find).

I believe the Bounty kind system can be implemented for that. The closer you are the more accurate you can tell the location. The further away the larger the "sound circle" would be. So, if you're like max distance you will only know that somebody is shooting in that general area. Very close and you will able to say that he's probably just around the corner etc.

In that way you won't be giving your pin-point position away.


I also agree that there have to be a further sentiment for people to move. Like, once you've found some neat equipment/unlocked you equipment there's literally no reason for you to move anywhere. I think people should always be scavenging for equipment etc.

But most of all. Death should mean death. No coming back, no perks, no gulag, no loadout. You only get what you find, and the "quality" of these weapons should be changed so that most guns will have a sort of standard optic/scope but not much else.

 

[CMCFLYYY]

@CMCFLYYY

You raise some very valid points. I also think there's way too many weapons with silencers. To be fair, I think silencers should be very rare. But that raise another problem that everybody will know exactly where you are. That is both not very realistic and it also means that you want to stay away from combat until you have silenced weapons (granted, they are easy to find).

I believe the Bounty kind system can be implemented for that. The closer you are the more accurate you can tell the location. The further away the larger the "sound circle" would be. So, if you're like max distance you will only know that somebody is shooting in that general area. Very close and you will able to say that he's probably just around the corner etc.

In that way you won't be giving your pin-point position away.

This is an interesting idea that I wouldn't necessarily complain about, because at that point it wouldn't work any different than your own ears do. You can hear the approximate direction of gunfire but you can't pinpoint it. The radar could function the same way by giving an approximate location.

Id still rather just remove the radar entirely unless you have a UAV. Press M to view the map for contracts and waypoints, but that's it.

 

[Funky Jammer]

I'll take Classic over Plunder and Quads. Quads is 1/10th of the time an actual 4 team fill and 4/10th chance anyone will have a mic.

 

[Secuter]

I'll take Classic over Plunder and Quads. Quads is 1/10th of the time an actual 4 team fill and 4/10th chance anyone will have a mic.

There's also the other part with quads/trios etc where the teams that are full and also just generally better teams will have a much better chance at winning. That seems obvious that the better team would win - they should, but it's currently for the wrong reasons. Why? Because of Gulag that allows them to come back and pick up all their stuff, and if they don't win in Gulag their team can just buy them back if one survives. This takes away some of the risk of engaging other teams.

Some days ago I looked at twitch. The guys I watched was a great team for sure. But it certainly helped that they were able respawn granting each of them about 3-4 lives.
Furthermore, the standard version will always benefit higher level players who have better equipment.

And lastly, I just personally like a BR where everybody are on the same page. Nobody starts with weapons - you are all equal. No buying equipment, no perks, no respawns or anything. If you die you die.

As I've already suggested - the Classic BR in my opinion needs a bit of revisiting, it should be a more "realistic" version - if one can call COD realistic in anyway:

- Remove most silenced weapons. To make up for this the map won't show a pin-point indicator but a "general area" where the one shooting could be.

- Remove the Heartbeat Sensor. That thing is fine in standard where you can counter it, but it has no counter in Classic, thus it should be removed.

- More diverse weapons should be found. I've yet to find the FAL for instance. Most of these weapons should have very little equipment - most might have a reticle or such, but nothing else.

- There has to be more incentitive to move around. Currently once you've found some good equipment you don't need to go anywhere except to avoid gas. This risks making the game much more camper-ish.

 

[CMCFLYYY]

As I've already suggested - the Classic BR in my opinion needs a bit of revisiting, it should be a more "realistic" version - if one can call COD realistic in anyway:

- Remove most silenced weapons. To make up for this the map won't show a pin-point indicator but a "general area" where the one shooting could be.

- Remove the Heartbeat Sensor. That thing is fine in standard where you can counter it, but it has no counter in Classic, thus it should be removed.

- More diverse weapons should be found. I've yet to find the FAL for instance. Most of these weapons should have very little equipment - most might have a reticle or such, but nothing else.

- There has to be more incentitive to move around. Currently once you've found some good equipment you don't need to go anywhere except to avoid gas. This risks making the game much more camper-ish.

I agree 100% with almost all of this. One thing though - the Beefeater and Stormcloud are both FAL blueprints that you can find in loot boxes.

I was talking about this with my buddy a day or two ago - they need to bring a Hardcore mode to Warzone and it could be coupled with the Classic mode. I'm tired of the bullet sponge effect where it takes 10-12-14 AR bullets just to kill someone at moderate range. The issue is how armor is currently working.

In Pubg, there are 3 tiers of armor but the T3 armor is quite rare and hard to find. Plus when armor is damaged you can't just repair it to full hp like you can by re-plating in Warzone. So a T3 vest becomes no better than a T2 vest if you've taken a few shots already during mid-game. With those two factors, I'd say at least half of the players only have T2ish armor by the end-game. Plus players drop from the plane with no armor at all, so just 100hp.

Compare that with Warzone, where every player drops with 2 plates and therefore 200hp from the start. And armor plates are everywhere so it is not rare to have full "T3" armor in Warzone - in fact you are expected to re-plate to full 250hp after every engagement. Plus armor gives you more hp in Warzone, where each plate adds 50hp with each level giving you 150/200/250hp. In Pubg they do armor by damage reduction and not additional hp, but you can easily reverse engineer it to calculate like Warzone. T1 armor in Pubg only adds 43hp for 143hp total, T2 adds just 24hp to that for 167hp total, and then T3 adds 56hp for 223hp total.

So to sum up, players drop with no armor/100hp in Pubg, T2 armor is more common in end-game than Warzone and it only gives 167hp compared to the 250hp most players have in end-game for Warzone, AND even if you do find T3 armor the 223hp still isn't as effective as the much more common 250hp "T3" in Warzone. All of this combines to result in guns being more lethal in the mid/end-game for Pubg compaerd to Warzone, and even more so in the early game when nobody has armor yet.

Look at this comparison between Warzone and Pubg for the AK and M4 at 50m (torso hits to kill/headshots to kill):

AK

Warzone: 8/5 against T3, 6/4 against T2
Pubg: 5/3 against T3, 4/2 against T2, 1/2 against no armor

So with most players only having T2 at end-game, the Pubg AK is able to kill in just 4 torso shots and only 2 headshots. Both of these are half of what it takes to kill in Wazrone end-game. Even if they have both T3 armor and helmet, it's still just 5 torso shots and 3 headshots, so that's still nearly half.

And in the early game with no armor, it's just 2 torso shots and 1 headshot to kill while Wazrone requires 6 torso shots and 4 headshots, because players drop with T2 armor. That means the AK is over 3x more lethal in the early game, especially with the ability to one-tap headshots.

M4

Warzone: 14/10 against T3, 8/12 against T2
Pubg: 6/3 against T3, 4/2 against T2, 3/2 against no armor

The effect is even more ridiculous here. The Pubg M4 at end-game is killing T2 armor in just 4 torso shots and 2 headshots, while killing T3 armor at Warzone end-game requires 14 torso and 10 headshots - that is nearly 3x as lethal. Even if they do have T3 it's still just 6 and 3 shots to kill, which is still between 2-3x as lethal.

In the early game with no armor, it's just 3 torso shots and 2 headshots compared to Warzone requiring 12 and 8, since players drop with 200hp. That is nearly 4x as lethal.

Both of these weapons are 2-3x more lethal in the Pubg mid/late-game since a lot/most players will only have T2 armor, but even if they have the rarer T3 they are still almost 2x as lethal. And in early game with no armor they are 3-4x as lethal.

Could you imagine using an M4 in the final circle of Warzone and it only taking 4-6 bullets to kill, or just 2-3 headshots? I don't think a Hardcore Warzone needs to be as lethal as regular Hardcore mode with just 30hp, where most guns kill in 1-2 shots. But at the minimum they should double the DPS of most of the weapons in this Hardcore Classic Warzone mode.

 

[CMCFLYYY]

Other changes I would make:

- Remove the ability to see unsuppressed gunshots from the minimap. The base minimap should just be for marking waypoints for your team. You need a UAV to see where any enemies are on the map. The only way you should be tracking enemies (without a UAV) is with your own eyes and ears.

- Make the UAV last longer, have a wider range, and have 3 distinct abilities. The current UAV only lasts like 25-30s I believe - I'd double that to 1 minute and give it a wider range. However for the first 30 seconds, while it's booting up it's more powerful detection equipment, it just acts as a listening device for gunfire. It will auto-mark on your map any unsuppressed weapon gunfire with a static mark, and re-mark it each time that person fires, and the mark will last on your map until the UAV is gone. It will also detect suppressed weapon fire, but not be able to pinpoint the location as well, instead giving you a wider mark on your map. Basically it will be able to tell you the building a person is in but not the specific room etc.

Then after 30s has passed, it will spend seconds 31-45 detecting all visible players who don't have Ghost on. This is how the UAV functions currently, except I would change it to not being able to detect any players who are hidden inside buildings away from windows. It makes no sense that a drone with cameras would be able to see you through walls. It will auto-mark these players on your map and will continuously update their location - ie not a static mark like the gunfire. So if you don't run Ghost players with UAVs will be able to see your exact movement during these 15 seconds. It will still detect gunfire and place static marks on your map during this time.

After those 15s have passed, it will spend seconds 46-60 using thermal detection to also detect all players with Ghost who don't use Cold-Blooded. These players would be auto-marked with the same continuously updating mark on your map, until the UAV leaves the combat area at the 60s limit. It will still track gunfire and players without Ghost during this time as well.

This means you don't have to use a suppressor all the time in Warzone to stay off the map. I had no idea until recently that this is how it works in regular Multiplayer - being a Warzone-only player I assumed all game modes required the use of a suppressor to stay off the map. Why do the devs feel the need to change this for Warzone? Either way, you don't have to run a suppressor all the time now, but without one your gunshots will be louder and easier for enemies to track down audibly. When a UAV shows up you would need to hold-fire or else you'll start appearing on the minimap. You'll also have to run both Ghost and Cold-Blooded to stay completely off UAVs for the full minute.

- I don't think Heartbeat Sensors need to be outright removed, just vastly nerfed. And I say that as someone who uses it. Why should you get basically an unlimited basic UAV for the entire game while the other tacticals just give you 1 stun or flash (without Restock). How is that remotely balanced. The HB Sensor should be battery operated and it should die after say 10 uses. So you need to save those 10 uses for when you really need it, or else it will die after the first 2 minutes you have it. Maybe with Restock you could have unlimited HB Sensor usage.

- Remove sniper glint. This is a dumb feature already but has no place in a Hardcore mode. The point of sniping is to hide yourself and long-range and take potshots at enemies. If they can immediately pinpoint your location before you can fire your 2nd or 3rd shot, what is the point? I currently use a 3.5x scope to avoid this, and the difference is night-and-day for how long it takes enemy snipers to return fire if I'm at long-range, if they ever find me. This feature prevents players from using the longer scopes, and what is the fun in that? The point of a sniper is to out-range ARs, but then you force snipers to use 3.5x scopes and make them mid-range weapons? Dumb.

- Reduce melee damage. There is no way hitting someone with the butt of your shotgun should be more lethal than shooting them point blank with said shotgun. Especially if that player is wearing armor, tell me how a melee attack can kill in just a couple hits? How does it make any sense for a .50cal sniper to require 3 body shots from close range but 5 bare-knuckle punches has the same effect? The only time a melee attack should be lethal is if it's done from behind assassination-style, or if you choose to forego a suppressor in favor of one of the breacher or bayonet muzzle attachments. If you try to melee someone from the front without one of these, it should be a death sentence that you only resort to if you're out of ammo.

- Slow down "ADS" time for RPGs and C4. It should never be a viable tactic in CQC to switch to an RPG or C4 and use it offensively. You should be dead before you ever get a chance to use it. Nerf the ADS time so it takes longer to use them, thus relegating them to their intended usage - to kill vehicles and clear campers from rooms. Also reduce the number of rockets players can carry - why can you only carry 2 grenades or C4 but you can carry 6 rockets?

- A recoil nerf to almost all SMGs and ARs. It should never be a viable strategy to return full-auto fire at a sniper from long-range. Why even have DMRs and snipers if ARs can just beam from 100m with no recoil? Similarly, an MP7 should not be a viable mid-range weapon you can full-auto spray. Also add massive recoil penalties to players who try to jump-shot or shoot while sliding.

- Add damage for jumping out of moving vehicles. Like seriously how is this not fixed by now.

- Remove the unlimited parachute. You should get 2 chutes max, the regular you drop from the plane with and a reserve. You can save the reserve to jump off 1 buliding later in the game, or you can waste it early to pistol someone. But get rid of this nonsense where you can cut and re-deploy your chute 6 times to pistol people from the sky (LOL), and then use that same chute to jump off 20 buildings in game.

- Headshots kills should skip the revive function altogether. Tell me how it makes sense to revive a player from near death after they got shot in the face with a .50cal sniper rifle? Headshot kills should make players un-revivable, just dead.

- Remove Loadouts from the game-mode entirely. The purpose of a BR game is everyone drops from the plane with the same thing (a pistol, and NO ARMOR PLEASE), and you only get what you find. Add in the rest of the blueprint weapons to the floor loot and remove all Loadouts. The point of this game is not to collect cash for 5 mintues and buy your picture-perfect Loadout and then spend the rest of the game camping. You should spend the game looting more and more to find those better blueprint weapons so that you get the right combo you want by the time you get to the final 30 players etc.

- Change the free Loadout drop to a Legendary Crate drop. Have like 5 red chests tied together and parachute into multiple areas on the map, and have them visible to ALL players, not just you like the current free Loadout drops.

- I don't think Perks need to go - you should still be able to customize your character with "abilities". I would change them up a bit, but that's a whole other topic of conversation.

/rant