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Angels of Death

Winning gunfights in BR

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
@CMCFLYYY oh yeah man outside of 20m the mp5 is gonna be annihilated by the cr56.
But imo within 10m the mp5 obviously dominates and within 10-20m 100% of ads time should be considered within ttk (as hip firing in this range isn't going to lead to many won gunfights) and by this metric, the mp5 is again the better choice.
Agreed. Playstyle is also a thing - I use a Kar as my primary and I find that most of my encounters where I'm not using the Kar tend to happen from like 30-50m so for my secondary I want something with better mid-range performance instead of CQC. So that's why I default to the CR-56 or AK-47. But maybe your playstyle is different and you do find more use with an SMG inside buildings etc. I just feel like, I'll put up with the CR-56's slower CQC TTK because it is vastly more efficient in mid-range and I find myself in more of those gunfights.
 

Angels of Death

H3rd

Recruit
I have been trying to be more aggressive in my play to test out my load out more and have seen some improvements. I now find I need to get more head shot and top of body hits. I tend to hit center mass more in CQB. Maybe it is a confidence things I need to work on where I am afraid of missing.

I may try my MP7 paired with my M4 since that one is kitted out nice. I just need to find the guns that are effective in my style of play.

Oh, and I am trying to use C4 and grenades more, leaving the bouncing Bettys and claymores behind, unless I can pick them up in the field.

It would be great to have your folks watch my play or play with me to tell me how to get better.
 
@H3rd yeah I've had to correct that too.
As I mentioned previously I came from pubg and was in the habit of keeping my crosshairs around stomach level ready to ads in cqc gunfights - since the recoil was a little heavier in that game it used to pull you up to a nice headshot for the third shot which would usually be lights out.
In this game you sort of need to be at chest/head right away it seems. But the risk in that is with the amount of dropshotting players around - if you're ads on someone's head and they dropshot you you're done for.

I like the mp7. It's not very strong but it's super fast to move around the map with. It has a VERY nice hip fire spread too, so if you like shooting from the hip I reckon it's a great choice.
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
Thanks to this thread I have started using a weapon that I had not thought of trying before, the CR-56, and wow... it's not perfect in all situations, but I have started winning gunfights and getting longshots like 57m away with just an iron site, getting, I've even had some double and triple kills, I do like this, I think I will try and get this gold, already levelled it up to level 24 and want to get into that camo where I need 100 kills with no attachments, so I can get that out of the way.
 

H3rd

Recruit
I played some BR and Plunder last night with my MP7/M4, HB sensor, and C4 as my first load out and was able to get a good deal of downs and kills. May for interior of buildings and the M4 for more distance. I use the NVG on my M4 which helps me stay on target more. I think that I am getting more comfortable with trying to get headshots.

I also made some tweaks to my settings like contextual tap, ADS and more, that seems to help.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
Still really loving this CR-56, look at my progress to gold since Friday.

View attachment 1196

This is a really good choice of gun, I'm enjoying it so much right now, I have so much appreciation for this thread for bringing it to my attention.
Your loadout...Compensator, 8.3 Intruder, Tac Laser, Solo NVG, 45-Mag? I'm guessing you play Core? I've never used it with the Intruder barrel. When I gold'd it I used the M67 Mags because it made it a 1HTK at all ranges in Hardcore (I play HC Kill Confirmed), and in Warzone I use the Zodiac barrel for obvious reasons. I'm also a VLK guy over the NVG.
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
You said, and our survey said::

Compensator - Yes
8.3 Intruder - Yes
Tac Laser - No, I went sleight of hand instead
Solo NVG - Yes
45-Mag - Yes

That's impressive I had to give that post some love.

I won't lie, I don't know what I am doing when it comes to attachments half the time, what I do is read what it says, and hope it will help with hitting my goal.

Solo NVG has magnification, helpful for getting those 100 longshots and the night vision also helps pick out many of my opponents from the background and does well through smoke dropped by opponents, except for those running cold-blooded.

45 Rounds because spray and pray, Sleight of hand because I need frequent reloads on account of spray and pray.

Compensator because it helps reduce that barrel climb when I panic fire and forget to use bursts (nearly all of the time).

5 attachments because getting the camo with 5 attachments unlocks before the 1 for zero attachments ladder and I am averaging around 15-20 kills per game.


I'm guessing you play Core? I've never used it with the Intruder barrel. When I gold'd it I used the M67 Mags because it made it a 1HTK at all ranges in Hardcore (I play HC Kill Confirmed), and in Warzone I use the Zodiac barrel for obvious reasons. I'm also a VLK guy over the NVG.
I am playing mostly on the Mosh pit and I have selected a few game modes for Quickplay, I have not tried core, I don't know, maybe I should give it a go, I just think calling it Hard Core makes it sound like it is for real expert players and I don't see myself fitting in with that title.

You'll have to explain to me why the reasons for using the Zodiac barrel are obvious, dumb it down a little (a lot) for me though.

So when I picked the Intruder barrel it was because the advantages are improved ADS and movement speeds, but I have unlocked the FSS Squall that only has 1 disadvantage and so this might help me in closer quarter skirmishes, so I might try that or I could just go back to stock as I have completed the 5 attachment camo ladder.

I will definitely give the M67 Mags a try, I like the sound of going semi-auto but not the idea of dropping down to 10-rounds, I definitely like the idea of 1 hit kills, of course, I have to get that hit in the first place, lol

If it wasn't for posts like yours on this thread we wouldn't be having this conversation now, so I need to be open to ideas, don't be afraid to make suggestions, I am learning a lot from this thread alone.
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
You'll have to explain to me why the reasons for using the Zodiac barrel are obvious, dumb it down a little (a lot) for me though.

So when I picked the Intruder barrel it was because the advantages are improved ADS and movement speeds, but I have unlocked the FSS Squall that only has 1 disadvantage and so this might help me in closer quarter skirmishes, so I might try that or I could just go back to stock as I have completed the 5 attachment camo ladder.
The Intruder is good for Multi-player because range isn't as important. In Core game modes the CR-56 is a 3 hit to kill (HTK) inside 25m, and 3-4 HTK inside roughly 45m. That will cover most of your gunfights in Multi-player. The Intruder lowers that range to 20m and 40m, so not a big deal in the long run. What is a bigger deal with the Intruder is the 10% recoil nerf, which will impact your medium range gunfights as the CR-56 already has sizeable recoil.

The benefits of the Intruder are roughly 10% ADS (Aim Down Sight) speed increase and nearly 1.5% movement speed. Which are good, especially the ADS boost.

The Squall is similar to the Intruder. You still get a nearly 10% ADS boost (9% in this case) but you only lose 3% of your range this time (was a 13% nerf with the Intruder). This means your 3-4 HTK ranges are still going to be closer to the stock 25/45m ranges. You also don't get a recoil nerf at all, so your mid-range gunfights will be easier. The only downside is you don't get the movement speed buff the Intruder gives, so your movement will be the same as the stock weapon. In my opinion, to get nearly the same ADS buff as the Intruder with almost no range nerf and no recoil nerf, the Squall is probably a better choice for multi-player.

Now for the Zodiac, this is more for Warzone. The Zodiac would actually extend your 3-4 HTK ranges to nearly 35/65, which is bordering on overkill in multi-player. It's other major benefit for multi-player is lowering recoil by 22%, which is definitely noticeable. However the downsides are too steep for Multi-player - nearly 20% ADS speed nerf and over 3% movement speed nerf, plus your hip-fire spread becomes 70% worse.

However for Warzone the discussion completely changes, because range and recoil are king. The stock CR-56 can be a 6 HTK with chest shots inside 25m and is still 8-9 HTK out to 45m. The Zodiac barrel extends those ranges to almost 35/65m which is huge. Also this is the first time I'll mention this because it isn't relevant for multi-player, but basically any attachment that affects range also affects bullet velocity, and vice versa. The Zodiac nearly doubles the CR-56's bullet velocity which makes hitting longer range targets easier in Warzone, where more of your gunfights are out near and past 100m. The CR-56 has one of the lowest stock bullet velocities for an A/R so this is also a huge buff the Zodiac brings to the table that didnt matter for multi-player. Also that 22% recoil reduction is even more important when battling enemies at 100m or more. In this case the range, bullet velocity, and recoil buffs are all well worth the 20% ADS speed and 3% movement speed nerfs. Plus you hip fire far less often in Warzone compared to multi-player so that nerf doesn't hurt here as much either.

So to sum all that up. The Intruder is good for Multi-player if you want to run-N-gun with both the ADS and movement speed buffs, just watch out for the recoil nerf at medium ranges. The Squall is better for more passive play, still giving nearly the same ADS buff as the Intruder but without the range and recoil nerfs. So you will find the Squall better suited for mid range gunfights than the Intruder. And then the Zodiac should be the only barrel used in Warzone thanks to it being the only CR-56 barrel that adds range and bullet velocity, and also lowers recoil to boot.
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
Thanks @CMCFLYYY that's an excellent answer and it makes a lot of sense.

I'll have to experiment in a few bot matches and look at how the gun handles at different ranges, and more importantly which barrel feels the best in play.

Now I know what behaviours to look for, I'll understand more about what factors are working for and against me.

I find maps like Rust and Shoothouse with 11 rookie bots in Free For All is a good space to experiment in. Bots never complain when you quit a match.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
I will definitely give the M67 Mags a try, I like the sound of going semi-auto but not the idea of dropping down to 10-rounds, I definitely like the idea of 1 hit kills, of course, I have to get that hit in the first place, lol
To reiterate, I used the M67 mags for Hardcore because it was 1 HTK in Hardcore - they're a 2 HTK for Core inside 50m and a 3 HTK outside that. So the M67 mags really aren't good for Core because they only lower your HTK by 2 but lower your ammo capacity from 30 (or 45) to just 10. In Hardcore however, the CR-56 is only a true 1 HTK inside 35m - outside that you'll likely need 2. The M67 mags ensure it stays at 1 HTK for all ranges to any part of the body.

I won't lie, I don't know what I am doing when it comes to attachments half the time, what I do is read what it says, and hope it will help with hitting my goal.

Solo NVG has magnification, helpful for getting those 100 longshots and the night vision also helps pick out many of my opponents from the background and does well through smoke dropped by opponents, except for those running cold-blooded.

45 Rounds because spray and pray, Sleight of hand because I need frequent reloads on account of spray and pray.

Compensator because it helps reduce that barrel climb when I panic fire and forget to use bursts (nearly all of the time).
A couple comments here. I get why you like to use the Compensator - over 25% reduction to recoil. I personally still use a Mono Suppressor in Multi-player for 2 reasons. The first is I HATE when the other team knows where I am - I will use a suppressor over anything else almost all the time. And secondly, I basically only use Multi-player to unlock attachments/camos for Warzone - Warzone is my priority. And in Warzone the Mono Suppressor is an absolute necessity, so my logic is...if I can't use the Compensator for 25% recoil reduction in Warzone, I shouldn't "practice" that way in Multi-player either. If I practice with reduced recoil in Multi-player, then when I try to control a spray in Warzone the gun will feel like it has 25% more recoil and I won't be used to it.

As far as optics, I'm not sure if you're aware but there are quite a few optics that actually reduce a bit of recoil (for some reason). The Solo NVG is actually one of the better ones for overall vertical recoil reduction (15%) but it doesn't do anything for side-to-side stabilization. The VLK does 10% for both vertical and horizontal. The Cronen C480, Merc Thermal, and Scout Combat are all good for recoil reduction as well. For a brief comparison between these 5 sights:

Solo NVG: 3.25x zoom plus the thermal overlay which helps with target identification. Also reduces vertical recoil by 15%. The downside is a 25% ADS speed nerf.

VLK: Only 3.0x zoom and doesn't have the thermal overlay, but reduces both vertical and horizontal recoil by 10%. Also the ADS speed nerf is just 8%, 1/3 of the NVG.

Scout Combat: 3.25x zoom like the NVG w/o the thermal overlay. Can't find hard numbers for the recoil reduction, but the plots seem to indicate it could be 15% for vertical like the NVG as well as 10-15% for stabilization like the VLK. It also is good for ADS, with just a 9% nerf. So it is very similar in overall performance to the VLK, however what it does lack is a clear sight picture - the VLK simply has the prettiest sight in the game while the Scout Combat clutters it up.

VLK Scout Combat / Cronen C480
2020-08-24_10-22-54.png 2020-08-24_10-23-23.png

Cronen C480: Offers 3.5x zoom again without a thermal overlay. Offers what looks like a similar 10% vertical recoil buff and mayyyybe 5% for horizontal stabilization. So more zoom than the VLK with less recoil buff, it has a simliar ADS speed nerf (10%). However it also has the ugly Scout Combat reticle pictured above, so again I'd give the edge to the VLK.

Merc Thermal: 3.25x zoom and a thermal overlay like the NVG. However it offers a 10% vertical/horizontal recoil reduction like the VLK, plus it has a clearer reticle than the NVG (in my opinion).

NVG Merc Thermal
2020-08-24_10-28-35.png 2020-08-24_10-29-20.png

The issue with the Merc Thermal is, like the NVG, that thermal overal comes at a cost - 25% ADS speed nerf. Your ADS speed is slowed 3x more than the VLK, Cronen C480, and Scout Combat while offering similar zoom and recoil reduction. So basically you're paying for the thermal overlay with about 50ms of ADS time. I personally don't use thermals because of that slow ADS nerf, and I don't like the idea of missing the occasional target because they had Cold-Blooded equipped. But I do acknowledge that the thermal overlay does have it's uses especially around smoke.

Now as far as Sleight of Hand. Different sources measure reload times differently, but according to XclusiveAce the CR-56 goes from 1.69s to 1.10s reload time with Sleight of Hand equipped. That is definitely not insignificant by any means - that is a 35% reduction. However you have to do a cost-benefit analysis with the other attachments you COULD be using instead of Sleight of Hand, to see if anything might offer more benefit.

Laser: I don't know how you play, in terms of run-n-gun or more passive medium range play. But the Tac Laser cuts off 15% ADS time, which would wipe out the entire additional penalty your NVG thermal gives you, while also offering some additional aiming stability. I use a Tac Laser on any weapon I am not planning to hard-scope with, since that makes the laser visible. This means I wind up skipping the Tac Laser for a lot of my Multi-Player classes because I do like to stay back and keep most encounters to medium range if I can, so I wind up pre-aiming sightlines quite frequently. I will also mention, if you like to run-n-gun the 5mW laser offers a huge buff to your hipfire and "sprint to fire" time, meaning you can hipfire faster after coming out of a sprint.

Stock: Names can vary weapon-by-weapon but for the most part each weapon has 4 stocks: a Stability stock that buffs Aiming Stability while nerfing ADS strafing speed, a Strafing stock which does the reverse - boosts ADS strafing speed while nerfing Aiming Stability, an ADS stock which buffs ADS speed while nerfing Aiming Stability, and usually a No Stock that adds a Movement Speed buff and Recoil nerf to the ADS stock. The CR-56 has all 4 of these options, plus a couple others. Again this would depend on your playstyle. Since I prefer mid-range gunfights, I like to equip the Stability stock (the FTAC Hunter for the CR-56). Especially for Hardcore, ensuring your first shot is accurate is paramount, so the added Stability is worth losing ADS strafe speed. However if you prefer to run-n-gun more than the ADS stock (FSS Close Quarters) or No Stock might better suit you. However I wouldn't pair the No Stock with the Intruder barrel, as your recoil will go to crap because both of those will combine to lower your recoil control by nearly 50%.
 

Attachments

CMCFLYYY

Recruit
(Continued since there's a character limit lmao)

Underbarrel: I just noticed, you don't have a front grip equipped? There are 4 main grips to use and 3 of them (Merc, Ranger, Operator) all give 17% vertical recoil reduction, so we're mainly interested in their secondary buffs and nerfs.

Merc: Improves hipfire so it's good for SMGs, and also has a hidden 4% buff to movement speed (again good for run-n-gun SMG classes). The downsides are an 8% nerf to ADS speed (doesn't matter if you hipfire a lot) and a 9% ADS strafe speed nerf (again doesn't matter if you hipfire at close range).

Ranger: Improves aiming stability so it's better for rifles, and it has a similar 6% ADS nerf and 9% ADS strafe nerf however these nerfs are more important now since you're going to be ADSing more often with an A/R class.

Operator: Pretty useless IMO. Only reduces the 17% vertical recoil with no secondary benefit, and it has the highest ADS penalty (10%) of the 3 grips.

Of those 3, as mentioned the Merc makes more sense for run-n-gun SMG classes because of the hipfire and movement speed buffs, while the Ranger makes more sense for mid-range A/R classes where stability is more important than hipfire.

That leaves us with the Commando Grip. The Commando Grip is unique in that it doesn't help at all with vertical recoil, but instead helps with recoil stabilization. There are two types of recoil in this game. The first is the amount of vertical travel with bullet you fire - the Merc, Ranger, and Operator all lower this value by 17% which makes the vertical magnitude of the recoil pattern shorter. The second type is how much side-to-side bounce each shot has. Each gun in the game has its own unique recoil pattern, but there is also a random side-to-side bounce factor that makes the plot "random" each time you spray the weapon. Different weapons have varying amounts of side-to-side bounce, but the key thing to focus on here is...it's IMPOSSIBLE to predict and therefore control the side-to-side bounce. If you know your CR-56 has X amount of vertical recoil across a 20-bullet spray, you can control that by pulling down on your mouse to stay on target. But you cannot predict or control the gun bouncing back and forth randomly which is going to make some of your bullets miss the target at medium to longer ranges.

It is for this reason that I use the Commando on all of my rifle classes. I don't care how much vertical or horizontal travel there is in the recoil pattern - it's a pattern and you can plan for it and attempt to counter it. What you can't do is counter the randomized side-to-side bounce - the Commando grip removes a large amount of that. And the net effect of that is it basically removes a lot of the random "noise" from the recoil pattern, which makes the vertical/horizontal recoil itself even easier to predict and counter. Let me know if you want some more detail on this because I can go very in depth lmao.

So tl;dr I run a Commando on all my rifles because for mid-range it is much more useful to remove some of the side-to-side bounce, while also improving aiming stability (the secondary buff of the Commando). The Commando also doesn't have an ADS nerf, which is huge, with the only nerf being to movement speed which is much less relevant for mid-range combat.

Rear Grip: I will largely skip over these, as they offer the slightest buffs for all attachments. Most weapons have a Stippled Grip which buffs ADS, a Granulated Grip which buffs Aiming Stability, and a Rubber Grip that buffs recoil. The Rubber grip only offers a 4% recoil reduction, which is puny compared to the Merc/Ranger grip. The Stippled Grip only offers a 4% ADS buff, again that pales in comparison to other ADS buff attachments like the Tac Laser (15%) or the ADS stock (12%). I don't have hard data on the Granulated grip but if the Stippled and Rubber grips are that much weaker than other similar attachments, I'd have to believe the Granulated grip isn't as effective as the Commando Grip or the Stability stock.

Sooo...again not knowing your playstyle I could make several suggestions to replace Sleight of Hand. I assume you don't run-n-gun since you use the NVG. The Tac Laser offers the biggest ADS buff outside of the No Stock (which destroys your recoil), however then you have to deal with a visible laser if you're hard-scoping. I prefer to use the Stability stock (FTAC Hunter for the CR-56) to avoid that issue. But IMO you need a grip more than anything, and I'd suggest the Commando Grip although the Ranger grip would be good for a mid-range class as well. The constant recoil buffs you get from these will help you out more often than the few times being able to reload a half-second faster does.

I'd suggest:

Compensator
Squall barrel
Solo NVG
Commando/Ranger grip
45-Mag
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
I tried the Squall with the M67 Mags, I found it excellent in a practice match against bots, but in the heat of real battle with actual players it was taking me far too long for target acquisition, in a spray and pray situation I probably would have mowed down many of the people I came up against, but with this setup, where I would either miss with about 3 out of 4 rounds, I was out of ammo before I could kill anyone. It would work better if I could aim faster! I did get 1 long shot though, though it has to be said, it wasn't the player that I was aiming at the killed, it was the 1 that ran past him as I took my shot!

I've just seen your replies above and read them I didn't refresh my page before typing that last response so I missed them at the time, and wow you've gone to a lot of trouble, to me it looks like you have condensed months of playing, trial and error, with a lot of blood sweat and tears to learn all that and then condensed it into 2 posts so I can take a shortcut. Thanks so much for that effort, it is much appreciated.

My plan, build-up your suggested loadout using the Comando grip and give it a whirl, I will play a few rounds then record my 3rd or 4th match to see how I played in the replay, I have a feeling I will learn more by looking back at what I played rather than during the actual games as I play them.
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
@CMCFLYYY I have given it a shot with that setup, I like it, I like it very much indeed...

Played for a couple of hours, smash through a few of the Long shot camos, I went from 21 kills to 35, so please with that result, but not that, it's taken me a lot closer to gold as a achieved quite a few more camos as well.

Call of Duty  Modern Warfare 2019 Screenshot 2020.08.25 - 02.01.18.30.png
The grip is doing a lot for me than Sleight of Hand was doing, that's for sure.
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
Right I just have 3 camos left to complete, mounted shots are not that tough to beat and they can help with getting those long shots, I have 50 left to get. I also need about 15 headshots, not worried about this either, I get these by accident in most games.

Long shots are my Achilles heel though, so some quick tips and helpful pointers would be nice.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 
Just to touch on one detail between the vlk 3 and cronen 3.5
Despite it's popularity I've never been keen on the vlk. It wasnt until I got used to the cronen that I realised that it's the actual graphics surrounding the sight that I really hate about the vlk. I find it very bulky and untidy compared to the cronen and find that it blacks out too much of the screen for me. The reticle on the vlk is nicer, but only a few unlocks in is the simple black cross, which I think is the best to use overall.
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
While we are talking about reticles, what do we get when we unlock all of the reticles? Is there some sort of challenge/reward or progress ladder linked to this?
 

Wiseowl

Recruit
Right I just have 3 camos left to complete, mounted shots are not that tough to beat and they can help with getting those long shots, I have 50 left to get. I also need about 15 headshots, not worried about this either, I get these by accident in most games.

Long shots are my Achilles heel though, so some quick tips and helpful pointers would be nice.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
Hardcore Aniya Palace is really good for long shots especially with the nvg! Outside at the back, right corner of palace, facing all the way to the other side. You usually see people sniping there. On the crates facing wherever!
My favourite map for long shots!
Another place is scrapyard! On one side of map you will have building with a window, lay down and point nvg through the smoke on other side of map.
On shoothouse where the car is on the right, wait for someone to peak from the corner and in the office right at the back wall, through window. Not all will be LS but depending where enemy comes you should get a few there too.

While we are talking about reticles, what do we get when we unlock all of the reticles? Is there some sort of challenge/reward or progress ladder linked to this?
I have completed the reticles with the blue dot at the end, l don’t remember any reward for it. If l did couldn’t have been special. Or maybe l did get something but not realised it was cos of that. Sorry not much help there lol!
 

DizzyDemon

Recruit
Hardcore Aniya Palace is really good for long shots especially with the nvg! Outside at the back, right corner of palace, facing all the way to the other side. You usually see people sniping there. On the crates facing wherever!
My favourite map for long shots!
Another place is scrapyard! On one side of map you will have building with a window, lay down and point nvg through the smoke on other side of map.
On shoothouse where the car is on the right, wait for someone to peak from the corner and in the office right at the back wall, through window. Not all will be LS but depending where enemy comes you should get a few there too.
I was thinking about this today, I think it is time to go back into some co-op matches, these would be a great place to peel off a few long-distance kills, mounted kills and finish off my headshots, right?

Even if we don't complete the mission, I will still be able to clock up some kills, and then of course, I completely forgot about Plunder, the respawns on this would make it easy for me to get some kills that way too, and my son can join in with me.

I do feel more confident with giving plunder a shot now,I used to find myself placed in the bottom half of the table at the end of MP matches, but now, thanks to what I have done with @CMCFLYYY's help, I often find myself in the top half and even sometimes top 3 with the occasional number 1 player spot.
 

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Angels of Death
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